EP:183 - Facing The Dark Within The Artist's Journey with Jamie Wollrab

Join us as we unfold the artist's journey with my dear friend and artist, Jamie Wollrab who’s  inspired me personally through his guidance over the years.

For the better part of two decades, Jamie Wollrab has been a multi-faceted coach. In this time, he has worked with some of the most influential people in the entertainment, music, personal development, and wellness communities.  Beginning in 2002, his focus lay extensively in the area of performance, acting, and voice.

He holds a BFA in Theatre from Texas Christian University and a Masters Degree in Acting from the Mason Grosse School of the Arts at Rutgers University. Beyond his studies in school, he has also been mentored by world-renowned voice teachers.

In 2014, Jamie began studying with the men’s leadership and embodiment coach, John Wineland, and assisted countless workshops with John in both the area of masculine work as well as relationship and intimacy. Additionally, Jamie co-teaches embodiment workshops geared toward Jungian shadow integration and chakra sound healing.

While his years spent in the world of acting and performance have greatly impacted and influenced him as a teacher, his true passion lies in joining success, artistic fulfillment, and emotional and spiritual health.

We discuss…

-The transformative synergy of artistic collaboration.

- The power of authenticity in our lives. - True success is not just about our achievements but its what resonates with our inner alignment.

- Through the lens of alchemy, we examine the process of personal transformation, embracing the idea that our greatest masterpiece is the canvas of life itself.

- How confronting our personal darkness can lead to a more authentic and powerful creative voice.

- Finally, we open up about the significance of authenticity in the realm of coaching and the importance of facing our emotions, even when they lead us into the dark.

 Connect with Jamie here:
https://jamiewollrab.com/the-artists-way/

Pick up a copy of my book Finally Thriving or purchase my audiobook here:
https://geni.us/FinallyThriving

Join my Finally Thriving Group Program waitlist here:
https://www.finallythrivingprogram.com/waitlist

Finally Thriving Program
Are you ready to get out of a reactive survival mode and step into your natural state of thriving?

Finally Thriving Audiobook
Purchase the Finally Thriving audiobook here!

Purchase Finally Thriving Here!
Get my Finally Thriving book here!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:17

Music. Your life is your greatest work of art and it all relates back to the synchronicity. Welcome to Integrate Yourself everybody. I'm your host, alison Pillow, and you can find me on alisonpillowcom and, finally, thrivingprogramcom. Today, I'm here with a very special guest, my good friend, jamie Woolrab.

Speaker 1: 0:42

For the better part of two decades, jamie has been a multifaceted coach and this time he has worked with some of the most influential people in the entertainment, music, personal development and wellness communities. In 2014, jamie began studying with the men's leadership and embodiment coach, john Weinland, and assisted countless workshops with John in both the area of masculine work as well as relationship and intimacy. Additionally, jamie co-teaches embodiment workshop geared towards young in shadow, integration and chakra sound healing. While his years spent in the world of acting and performance have greatly impacted and influenced him as a teacher, his true passion lies in joining success, artistic fulfillment and emotional and spiritual health. He is deeply honored and privileged to bring his entirely unique set of skills to each and every client. His company, jamie Woolrab Studios, produced an award-winning film, pilgrimage in 2021. He just directed a steady reign in Santa Fe while acting in the world premiere of a brother's play.

Speaker 1: 1:53

He has been teaching acting voice and men's workshops all over the world and, jamie, you are a dear friend of mine. You and I have been working together for years, so I am so excited you're here and I can't wait to talk about what we're going to talk about the artist's journey, the artist's way. I'm joining you on. This will be like probably the fourth year I'm joining the artist's way group and we're going to get more into what that's about today. Yeah, it's been incredible, so I would love for you to share more about that, as well as anything else you'd like to share about yourself today.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Amazing and thank you so much, and I think this is our first podcast in a few years.

Speaker 1: 2:34

It's been a while yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:36

It's been a while and we've had so many interactions between them. God, it's so interesting to listen to your bio. Back to you and you're like is that who I am? Is that me? Did I do that? It's such a trip. I don't think I've read that or seen that it gets updated here and there, but I guess that's the best way to describe it.

Speaker 2: 2:58

It's sometimes we want to be able to describe what we do outside, so it would be, to layman's terms, whatever people that aren't like in the lack of a better term cult of, you know, coaching. It's like what is it that we do? And it's when I, you know, I think what's something that I really want to talk about today and share and hear from you to is that how we're always not just being creative, but we're creating ourselves and we're creating what we are and what we do. And sometimes it's because we have to look back and like what have I been doing the last three years? And, okay, I might need a new title because I'm actually doing this. So I'm, you know, you're an author now, a published author. You know I'm a director now and I'm, you know, moving more into executive coaching, which is not because I called myself that, but because that's really what I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 3:51

And so I think that our titles of whatever it is that we are are constantly changing, unless you're a banker and you're a banker and you've been a banker and you keep going and being a banker. But with us it's like we're on the cutting edge, like we're always evolving of what the new and I think that that's what's so important about being an artist is that we can be flexible as well in our own identity. Just a trip to hear that back and we're like I know I was embarrassed and shy and you know, I'm sure your, your bio would be the same, but I just think that's it's such an interesting kind of way into the conversation. It's like you know who are we and that is part of what we're creating as well.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Absolutely and honestly. There was more. There was more of your bio. I could have read JV. You have so much experience.

Speaker 1: 4:48

I wanted to just focus in on more of the coaching part of you, but you have had so much. I mean, you're an incredible person in the way you have helped people in the acting, in the acting realm and on a personal level with just their personal growth and all kinds of spiritual growth as well. So, when it comes to people like you, there's not there's not very many people who can do all of that. That's just so much. And you've helped me as well with my creative projects and as well, you know, your wife has helped me with the book and we have a long history together and so, yeah, you've been a huge inspiration to me. So, I mean, I've just really been so grateful. I got to, I got to connect with you years ago, I think back like in it was like 2019. We did a. I did an acting workshop with you in New York and that was really incredible. You just opened me up to a new part of me that I didn't even know existed. You know it was it was really magical.

Speaker 1: 6:01

So you have, like it doesn't matter what you call yourself you're good at. You are like really talented at what you do and how you help people and you've called it many different things but what really matters is like that magic that you bring to the table, and you always bring great people together as well. I've noticed that throughout the years just really incredible people, and I've always enjoyed being in in that those communities as well. So, yeah, yeah, just wanted to give you some praise there.

Speaker 2: 6:38

I, you know, oh, thank you, learning how to receive and and I've seen you help me with training and you've helped me, I think the people that are the best at what they do me effortless, and then sometimes, when you get praise for it, you're like I was just being myself and you know being able to. I'm actually going to turn on my off by my focus, and that is just an extension of who you are as yours, as your healer and as your you know, your coach and your directing people and their, their health and their bodies. It was. It was interesting. I'll speak to one thing.

Speaker 2: 7:15

I directed a play this year that I was immensely proud of. It's in the bio but a steady rain. We ended up doing it in Santa Fe and it was such a success. We ended up bringing it to Los Angeles and what was, what was special about it was that usually in a you know, an artistic process, like you know actor, you direct something and then the show's over and people are like, oh my God, you were so good, but what was? There was something different about this experience, and this experience was people said, how did you do that? Like, how did you do that? Because it was such an immersive and it was a very alive experience and I wanted to speak to the artist and living a life of an artist and I had just in Santa before I went to Santa Fe, I was in Colorado running a men's retreat. That went very well and and I said well because I didn't direct the play any differently than I ran my men's retreat I did it. They were very similar. It was I talked to my interns in the same way I would talk to, you know, the star actor that there was months of preparation, there was, you know, meditating on a theme and really it wasn't just like, hey, let's sit some guys together and do it, like it was immense amount of preparation and while I was being vulnerable and a Well, if mistakes happened or miscommunication happened, I knew I was the one that was like I was leading this and I was directing this. So I was like the buck stops with me. Okay, that's my fault that that didn't happen, that didn't work. And so it was interesting seeing that that the spiritual path and the start path are really one in the same.

Speaker 2: 9:09

And I'm not rambling, but I was reading this amazing book by Gay Hendricks called um, the Seven Secrets of the Corporate Mystic and he literally said what I was, what I just said to you, and I was saying this before I read the book. And in the book, in this first chapter book, he talked about a CEO of I think it was um, motorola and, uh, the spiritual teacher. There's this Buddhist meditation teacher that he went on a seven day retreat with and he said something interesting. He said he saw that they were so similar that this, this woman that was leading this meditation retreat, and this man that was like leading this company that was thriving, that he saw this core principle of spiritual um integrity there was, there were synonymous between the two of them.

Speaker 2: 10:03

And that, to me, has just taken time. And you know, in the work that you and I have done together, it's like how long have you been a trainer? How long have I been an acting coach? How long have I been an actor? And it's like we're still getting better. Like how long have you been a writer? It's like we're still sanding that statue, we're still working this, and yet it becomes the more we work on it, the more it's really one thing. It's really one thing about how it's how we are being is what then emulates the work and the impact we have in the world.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's exactly where I was going with that yeah Is is that it doesn't matter what you call it, you know you are, you know you're that energy that you're creating right, that you're cultivating every day.

Speaker 2: 13:19

We all are. I think we all are.

Speaker 2: 13:21

Exactly, yeah, we all are, don't we wish politicians would do the same thing? It's like, you know, that's what's so tricky about that world, where it's a very strict world, where it's like, you know, and I think that's that, to me, is why I'm attracted to these really authentic souls and people who are, who are seeking that, and so they, you know, they come into our groups because they're like we know there's something that's not right about outside in the world. And I don't want to just get triggered and air on, you know, facebook and be like can you believe this person? It's like we're going to go. No, no, no, no. This is triggering me because there's an aspect of this that I have within myself and I can't make it. I can't make a difference until I've owned that part of me or I made a play about it or wrote a book about it, right, and so then we're, and then that's amazing, it's like then people read, finally Thriving, or they join the artist's way group and then they kind of get a taste of, oh, somebody can do this, they can make.

Speaker 2: 14:25

You know, there was somebody said this recently about alchemy like alchemy, like in their old hermetic senses, turning iron into gold, and they thought, like it's not, you know, chemically possible to do that.

Speaker 2: 14:38

But what they're really talking about is the alchemy of us as beings, is that we're turning our own lead, as of ourselves, into gold.

Speaker 2: 14:48

We are refining our spirit, our mind, our body and you know and you know this as a coach it's like you want a great life. It's like you got to eat well and you got to move your body and you got to get your rest and you got to speak up and share your voice about what it is that you're trying to, you know you're wanting to express and that's out. That's the alchemy. And then, all of a sudden, as I've noticed through whether it was the play or whether it was the artist's way or our last course we did on money is that I just saw everyone kind of turn into gold by working through these questions, writing, and like I saw that the alchemy happened and then everyone left in this, like we left them better than we found them right, and so and I don't think that process ever ends I'm just so grateful to have friends like you and a platform like this to be able to talk about it, because you remind me and affirm me that it's like no, this is worth it, this matters.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Oh yeah, what we do is these creative. Sometimes it feels like it doesn't, doesn't it Right? Yeah, like. I've felt like that with my skill set as well, with being a trainer and you know, just discounting the physical aspects of living, but like it's, you have to bring those higher aspects and spirituality into your body, into embodiment, so otherwise, like, you're not going to be in a body, right, like, what's the point of being in a body if we're not embodying?

Speaker 2: 16:23

those higher aspects.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Well, I'll throw one in that even deeper is that even success won't feel good.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 16:35

So you're not embodied in it, you're not understanding it. Like there again, another Gay Hendricks reference of the Big Leap, which is you'll have an upper limit and we'll sabotage it, we won't. We'll be like I didn't earn this, I screwed somebody over to get here. It was nepotism or whatever the things may be that got that success. Inside will know that it's like it doesn't feel right or it doesn't feel good, but I believe, like this work, the successes in that doing, and then if the outside approval does come again it's more of an affirmation. It's like, yeah, no, I really, I really did give my best to those men on that men's retreat and I really genuinely gave my best to those, those, those artists on that play. And so when people enjoyed it and it was this and it was a success, it felt coherent, it felt like, oh, I can receive it because that feels true, because I really did try and I know I could have done better in many of the areas. But it was like I was up every morning and meditating and working out and looking at my part and like surrounding myself with people that were trustable, and I was like and then, what's the? This is the crazy thing.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Allison is at the end of it you go I really love my life Because I'm, because it's it's, it is in the actions that we're taking in the world, and it's like, oh my God, I actually believe what I'm saying and I can stand by it. And it was like I was saying this to you before we got on the recording. But it's like you're like, how are you doing? And I'm like, because I can't. I'm about to lead a group and I can't do the things that aren't the guy that leads the group. You know I can't go off and you know, drown in fast food or something. If I'm the trainer, I mean we can, but we'll know we're not ultimately serving the people that we're going to be serving. And so there's some days where you're like, oh, I have to be good in, good in my heart because I know that I'm the transmission of what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 18:55

Yeah, I love the way you say that Absolutely, because that's called living in integrity, like if we're, if we're teaching something, you know we have to also. I think, anyway, it's good for you to experience it as well, right Before you can really teach it.

Speaker 2: 19:13

So I'm going to pay me for this Right.

Speaker 1: 19:18

I'm not going to be a really good trainer if I don't take care of my own body? Right, but there are traders out there like that, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: 19:26

Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure I was one of them. I was a trainer that did that and I was like I don't have the fortitude for that, but again it's our own sort of junk food behaviors.

Speaker 1: 19:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:36

You know, as we as artists, it's not about being a perfectionist, but it's about being authentic.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Yes, authentic is the good word for it.

Speaker 2: 19:44

I'm so moved about doing the artist's way again this year with all of you is what I'm already feeling the people that I've already joined and like Karen is joining this year and she's assisting me and she was in the money group and her enthusiasm of what changed her life during the money group like you can't buy that kind of authenticity. And now she's like proselytizing about the artist's way, which is really cool and I'm like that's success to me. It's like, oh you, I want to spend more time with you in my world and you know to get into like the artist's way. It's like I and this was I think this will be my fourth year doing it.

Speaker 2: 20:24

Europe part of the first year is like we're constantly creating our lives and we're creating, you know, whether it's interior, decorating our home. I just bought a cabin up in Idle Island and it's like, how do I want to design that and how am I going to down to the paintings, down to what I'm cooking, down to, and I'm going to write. I'm actually going to write a book about this, this year called the Art of.

Speaker 2: 20:50

Creative Living, which is looking at all aspects of my life and going every single of the aspects that have cultivated and that I'm proud of. It's because I brought an artist way to my approach to it.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Yeah, right Down to how we dress down to how you know we solve problems, or relationship problems. It's like, oh, I want to just scream at this person a French relationship I'm in and I'd love to just blow up. But I know that things like a Mago dialogue and things like that, it's like okay, but if I'm creative in my communication, we're gonna get better, we'll have a better result, and I know that. I know that, but I still need to be like reminded. So I know I'm talking a lot, so I'll pass.

Speaker 1: 21:38

Oh no, that's what we're here for. We're here to hear you talk. So I wanted to talk a little bit about the shadow stuff, because you really taught me a lot about shadow. Let me turn this.

Speaker 1: 21:51

Oh yeah, so, and this is one thing I've really been integrating even more this year is, you know, cause? You mentioned the word perfectionism and for some of us who are trying to be perfect and fit in, you know, and all those things, and it's like we have been pushing those shadows away, right, it's for years, and then finally, when we step into the shadow and we just make peace with it and acknowledge that it even exists, then it just dissipates, right.

Speaker 1: 22:23

I've experienced that in some of your working with you really a lot of some of the workshops and also some of the one-on-one work and so, as that relates to creativity, I've had a question a while back and the person was like, well, isn't it good to have, like, aren't people you know, creating from their shadows, like and creating, and isn't that like something that is inspiring them to create? And, you know, shouldn't we just like? You know what's that I mean? My answer was that, well, I mean, if you're creating from a less wounded place and you have made peace with your shadows, and if you're, then you're gonna create more purely in a sense, right, so, yes, you can create from a wounded place, but what is your opinion on this, jamie? In my opinion, it's more. I think it's going to be a more pure creation, it's gonna be more authentic, even if it's coming from a place of health and healing. And I don't know what is your-.

Speaker 2: 23:36

I think I have again as well. This is always a moving feast. I think I have my answer for it today, which is my. You know the kind of the thing that I'm working with myself. So, because I can get into the shadow and are we gonna work from a destructive or a creative place? I don't see it as bad or evil or anything like that. Like am I gonna be a method actor and really shoot heroin to play a heroin addict Like it's you?

Speaker 1: 24:08

know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 24:08

Yeah, yeah, or am I going to you know, look at it through a vein of healing, and how to transmute that. And just again, I'm using the word alchemy. But here's my thought. I'm gonna break this down in a way that I think is you know, for people that don't know which how to work is, and I think it's really simple.

Speaker 2: 24:34

I think in life we know what we know, right. So I know you're my friend Allison. I know that you're a trainer, I know that you know I have an acting degree. I know that my name is Jamie, I know that you know. There's things that I know the sky is blue and I know what I know. And then there's the things I know that I don't know, which is? I know I don't speak Mandarin Chinese. I know that I don't know how to dunk a basketball, like there's things I don't know and I know that I don't know it and that's great. So there's the things that I know, that I know, and there's the things that I know that I don't know, and that's all conscious and that's all great. I think where we all get into trouble is that when we don't know that we don't know Right. Right, it's like if you ever been in a fight with somebody and they're like you're like, stop yelling at me.

Speaker 1: 25:19

They're like I'm not yelling at you, You're like yes, you are.

Speaker 2: 25:25

They really don't think they're yelling and they don't think that that's what they're doing and that's, you know, your people. And I think, like this whole world, of being gaslit, I think that that word is completely abused and overused, other than some cases, because I think most people just don't know that, they don't know that they're doing that Right.

Speaker 2: 25:45

I see, I don't think they know that they're like I'm they're lying, but they don't even know that they're lying. They're just denial. Ms, I don't even notice I am lying. Yeah, the shadow work is to me is what is our blind spot? It's just what we don't know. It's what we don't know or don't want to know about ourselves.

Speaker 2: 26:05

So what the artist way does, or shadow work does because they kind of get to the same point is that they help us know what we don't know, helps us know that you know whether we have an abuse of addiction of some kind, whether a person is toxic for us, or whether you know our negative thoughts about ourselves. So if we have a negative thought about ourselves, it's like oh, I'm stupid, god, I'm just stupid. But it's kind of like the calls coming from inside the house. So you and because you know a fish doesn't know he's wet, you just kind of go. Oh, I just am stupid. That's just is, that's my reality and I don't know that. I don't know that that's a narrative that could be changed.

Speaker 2: 26:53

So shadow work is a way to kind of separate that part of me outside of me and creating a character or something. It's like you're stupid, you're stupid, you're just an idiot. And then I'm like, and then I've like distanced myself from that voice of anthropomorphize that voice, and then I go, oh my God, that thing is literally was like some kind of you know parasite as part of me, and then the more I can separate it and see it and then talk to it like what does it want from me? Like what do you need? What's the voice? And it's you know, it's you know childhood trauma or it's these negative beliefs that happen to us, and then it's like we can heal that and by admitting that and sharing about that and seeing that we actually restore a part of ourselves.

Speaker 2: 27:49

And that to me, is like the greatest thing in the world because of almost every single person I know that I know personally and that are in my life personally, they're all good people, they're really genuinely good people and I think that for almost all of them 99% of them they're greatest enemy is themselves and outside of, like you know, it's crazy different examples, but most of the people what they battle is how they talk to themselves and how they treat themselves, and shadow work in these kinds of processes is a way to kind of begin to be, to nurture, reparent and be kind to ourselves and then find an energy outlet or a voice for that negative voice to go, because we can't stuff it down. It wants to be shared and that turned into my film pilgrimage was. The recovering addict in me came out in it and now so much of that is healed. So much of that is healed and that came through in a part Because it's no longer a secret, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:00

It's no longer a secret and it was made into art. It was given life, Like all those negative shadow voices. In my opinion, they just want a voice, yeah, and they just want it to be heard in a way that we weren't heard at a certain point in our lives. And to me, the only way to do this is creatively. That's why I do what I do is that's why the Greeks wrote these tragedies and we were able to see these like human foibles on stage and go oh, I see myself in that. I'm not gonna do that anymore. I'm not going to. I want to be able to see that artist express the depth of that pain. I can know what I don't know.

Speaker 1: 29:48

You cut out for just a little bit.

Speaker 2: 29:50

I don't know. It was a little bit of a delay, Sorry about that.

Speaker 1: 29:52

Yeah, I don't know what's going on with you.

Speaker 2: 29:54

Oh no, no, it was a little bit of a delay. But I'm saying, is that why we do that is to know what we don't know? And then, once we know, it's like what?

Speaker 1: 30:02

now, what do I do with?

Speaker 2: 30:03

it.

Speaker 1: 30:05

And you have to release it, and creativity is a way to do that. Is that what you're saying, 100%?

Speaker 2: 30:10

100%. You can write a poem about it, you can paint about it, you can cook about it, you can sing about it, you can do a podcast about it, and then it's then something. There's then that space is inside of us, and then we actually can go. I have now more room to be present in my life because I'm not being weighed down by a voice from my past yes, yes, it's usually a voice from our past and so it frees us up and that's why I I'm here for and I'm probably gonna do a podcast with you in six years.

Speaker 2: 30:47

I'll be like where? Are you going to spray and I'm like yep.

Speaker 1: 30:53

Cause you just keep peeling the layers off. I know I know, as you were saying, that I thought about the book, my book, and how I shared stories, and so it did feel like it was an unloading of stuff I'd been holding in myself for so long, whether it was good stuff, bad stuff, whatever information that I needed to share. It felt like kind of the same. So it did create a lot of space. So I agree with you 100% on that and, yeah, it really frees us up, I believe, when we can express ourselves. Otherwise, if we're not expressing ourselves, we're just suppressing and, like you said, holding it, trying to hold it in our physical container. And I remember when I was at one of your retreats and I cannot recall his name but the breath worker that you hired to Sam, he was amazing. What's his name? Again?

Speaker 2: 31:50

Sam Morris.

Speaker 1: 31:51

Sam Morris, yeah, okay, so he is incredible, and during that breath work session, I had that voice come in that said you cannot contain this, and that was huge. That just gave me permission to release so much. And so I feel like, yeah, our bodies are, we're not meant to contain the energy. We need to let it move through. We really need to express it. And so this is what I've gotten, really from the artist way as well. It is you're going through your stories, your shadows along the way in the book and in the class, and then, as you go, you are unloading, unloading all that baggage so that you do have more space to create, as well as a creative process to go through that in the first place, you know. So, yeah, that's really. I've gotten so much out of it, so, yeah, thank you for that that great explanation of the shadow.

Speaker 2: 32:52

Yeah, and your book is seminal that it's not only you used your pain and your victories to write a book. It's like it now exists. And now, so many things that you've done from that book have created programs and podcasts and tours, and there's yes, there's more to be done, but you have a touchstone. You go, oh, I can do it because I did it. And that, to me, is you know a little bit about what I do.

Speaker 2: 33:20

Sometimes I don't get to express this, so much is that I help those that have been like, okay, I've done everything for money and now I have this, but I don't have something creative.

Speaker 2: 33:30

And it's like, okay, my mom just wrote a book this year and she was a worker B for years and then, you know, got into spirituality and wrote a book called Lotus. And then I also feel like artists also need structure. They need to be able to be fed and to be able to ask for their own value. So interesting, I have these two polar opposite programs, which is the artist way, which is opening us up, and to being able to let the emotions out and let the art out. And then in the summer I do the money course that I help like hold these artists responsible to their greatness, that we need structure, we need payment plans, we need websites, we need things that like. We need CPAs not to do our taxes, and it's like it's all about balance, right? So, yes, it's great to do shadow work, but we also, you know, need to know how to pair bills at the same time.

Speaker 1: 34:26

Yeah, that's important. Yeah, you know, it's like a book.

Speaker 2: 34:30

Yeah, be good, you know, be good parents, and so that's why, as I've just watched at least I'll speak for myself it's like I've watched so much growth over these last few years and about you know, whether it was the film or these plays and I see them all building on top of each other. And so, for the first time, I don't feel like, once a project is over, I'm like it's over and now I'm starting over. Much like finally thriving. It's like, yes, it's out there, but that is a stepping stone to the next thing, like you've built something that you should be incredibly proud of.

Speaker 1: 35:10

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 35:11

And your next creation is like that old ceiling is now the floor.

Speaker 1: 35:17

Right, you don't have to go back.

Speaker 2: 35:19

You're stacking into creating a life and creating a career.

Speaker 1: 35:23

that's extraordinary, yeah yeah, working on a second book as well. That's taking a little longer, but yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I love how you put that, because it's an ongoing process and we're going to continue to do this. And I feel like creativity, in some ways, is just the fountain of youth, like if, as you get older, you just realize all these things that you haven't had the opportunity to create yet and they're like oh, I would like to create this and this and this and this, and it's just the world opens up Because you spend most of your youth like if you have a family, you're raising the family, you're working, and so most of the time is spent developing your career and you're raising your kids and those things. And then the way I'm experiencing like the second half of life is like, oh, wow, like this is the time to do all the things I didn't get to do or haven't done yet and learn Like. So this year I was learning music all year and that was really amazing.

Speaker 2: 36:27

Oh yeah, you believe, right, you believe.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Yeah, yeah, and I'm excited about your new book as well. That's amazing too. You've been doing a lot of good things have been coming to you. You've been creating your life, cause really the ultimate and this you told me this years ago the ultimate creation is your life. You know like you're creating this in real time through your schedule, through what you choose to do every day, through how you choose to decorate your house, to what you put on first thing in the morning, how you start your morning. Everything is a creation.

Speaker 1: 37:02

So, if we can even start there because many of us don't think we're creative, but we are, everybody has, and this is what I think moving into 2024 is gonna be really the most important thing is to hone into your own inner creativity, your own uniqueness there, and how you see the world, how you show up in the world, maybe how you would like to make, what things, other things you'd like to do. You know what do you want to do differently that you haven't done before. So I think this class is gonna be even more important than ever for people, because we really are in a time where we need to be creative. It's like it's very important, you know.

Speaker 2: 37:47

Well, not to be doomsday here, I just love everything you just said. Like is that? I think some? There's always a challenge of a different age, there's always challenges, but to me it feels like information is not as readily trusted as it was before. And again, I'm not going to get into any of the policies or any of the things, but just I'm speaking to myself as a creative person that it just seems like it's harder to deal with the world than ever and there always seems to be whether it's an inflation, or I just got a bill today from my car insurance, so like, hey, we're adding $50. I'm like eggs were like $10 instead of two.

Speaker 2: 38:33

There's things that are constantly shifting and we're having to then deal with. I mean, again, it was the last few years that we're in. It was like this is the problem, this is the solution. It's like oh wait, no, never mind, that's not the problem, this is yeah, like what's real. So to me it's like we ultimately and this came through a very, very powerful healer of mine and it stuck with me, this woman named Patrice. She's amazing and she said that ultimately, in this age of Aquarius, out of the age of Pisces, is we're actually having to stitch and create our own reality and not to be delusional in that reality. I'm not saying that, but it's like I'm noticing that the leaders that I'm seeing are leaders that are more in smaller pods or smaller groups, or it's not so, and that's what feels so nice about kind of like leading something like the artist way, where it's like. And there's something I do now before I take anyone into any of my groups, I talk to them for an hour.

Speaker 2: 39:41

First. I don't just let anyone in. I think last year there were some mentally unstable like it because I didn't, you know, vet anybody coming in. I was like, oh, it'd be great. And I'm like, no, I've been more boundaries now and I'm still. Those doors are really flexible, but I'm putting more time and more energy to make sure that it's a safe space and it's like I learned that and so it's a little bit harder this year. It's a little bit, but it's worth, it's definitely worth it. So, you know it's it's like, yes, we can be these sensitive artists and yes, we're. You want to be creative.

Speaker 2: 40:19

But I also would just say to people it's like you know, be be aware and be aware of your surroundings and be aware of things we believe and make sure that we know that it's true for us and and that it's been a very interesting couple of years and that to know that I'm responsible for my own reality has kept me. It's kept me so sane and I'm not it's triggered about any of the noise that's outside of me, because I go do my research and do my work and I don't argue with anyone. I let everyone believe that they want to believe, because I really feel like, as you said, like the groups of people that we've put together, such really good people, because there's what I love is there's a personal accountability to them. And then they're like, oh my God, I can share this crazy thought, or I can be this, and people around there like, hey, I feel similarly to you and so that's, that's something that I'm this year. It's like I love that for those that come that are new, it's like we've really established a core group of people that are awesome, that done this before and that you know, and I try to partner up new people with people that have been there before and it's it's, it's just amazing Like I I, the leading these types of programs have really saved my life and also have made me go.

Speaker 2: 41:47

I don't know if there's another way, because you know, like I have to be able to be responsible to myself and to my creativity, and especially as entrepreneurs. It's like I don't get. I don't go to some place, somebody for a paycheck. It's like I'm constantly, always building something new and each time it's like I got to make sure that structure of that, that new organism that we're building, is like sound and and it's just so cool to watch what, and then, from that safe kind of environment, to watch what's created out of. That is John Bucadie's work, what he's doing, and like what you're doing, oh my God. And then the public thing comes out of it is something that's really well researched and true, and then we back in a thousand percent.

Speaker 1: 42:44

Yeah, I mean there's incredibly creative human beings and good people, like you said, in that group. I mean, I've been honored and just just so delighted to be in that group of people. And what you said earlier, yes, we are creating our reality. We have been creating our reality the whole time. I just don't think we noticed you know as much as we do now in some ways, and so, yes, there's a collective reality or dream, like my friend Paul Levy talks about, and there's, you know, your individual, like you're saying, we get to take responsibility for our own reality, and that's really what it's about. It's like you're not giving your power away to like, oh, this person said this, so it must be this or that. You know what is your. It's about discernment, it's about what your truth is right, and so that's what we're getting to hear as well. As artists, as creatives, we are taking our creative power back and we are learning how to use discernment and how we want to. You know.

Speaker 2: 43:47

And have a voice and be willing to argue. I love like where government used to be or things used to be, where it's like I can disagree with you and you could disagree with you and it's not like right so, and that we can be able to go like I have a voice. But I also love collaboration and I also go. Actually, that's a really interesting thought. I need to rethink that I could be wrong or or I haven't refined that idea enough and it's like having sort of a salon of place to go like hey, I'm writing this chapter on this book and I need somebody's feedback. Will you read it? I'm directing a music video right now and the edit isn't coming together and I let people look at it and go God, that's not right. I love that. I love surrounding myself with creatives going. It's just not there or this is wrong. I need to take it into a new direction, which I am. I'm taking it into an entirely new direction, but having a space to be able to throw it. You know, let an idea be bad.

Speaker 1: 44:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:48

Before I make it good Like that's what's so cool, rather than being fragile in how we see ourselves, and rather than it's like we are sensitive but not fragile, because I think sensitive is actually the strongest thing you can be, because we're aware and and and feeling that's, that's courage, yeah absolutely yeah. And so I just see like the greatest albums ever created. It's usually like artists that were like that sucked, no, that sucked.

Speaker 2: 45:17

You suck Like the Beatles, you know Radiohead, look at you know Wilco, look at these these, you know fluid Mac. It's like they, these artists, come together and here's the point. The second answer to your question about do you want to be dark? And then what about these things that were created that were dark and and shadowy? It's all about is what's the purpose of it. Are you doing it consciously?

Speaker 2: 45:43

You know, I think there's reasons why movies like horror, movies like hereditary, which dealt with like family trauma, and all of that is a different brand of movie as opposed to, like you know, horror porn. You know there's a reason why there's, there's fire, you know, and there's that, it's. It's to me. It's just what's the purpose? Like I'm, is it being done consciously? Am I going to that dark place to to emulate something so that people can see, like why does somebody play the devil? It's like you're playing the devil to tell that story, like you're, you're, you're going through that darkness to hopefully have a better hope for humanity, or to that people can empathize, like playing a depressed person or cuckoo's nest. It's like that's part of being in three dimensional reality is that there is polarity and so being able to embody that and do it because, to me, as if we're doing it dark for the sake of dark, we're doing it for ourselves.

Speaker 1: 46:50

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:52

It's selfish.

Speaker 2: 46:53

It's ultimately selfish. And if we're doing, if we're going through it because it's a gift and it's it's something that we're going there so that we can help free somebody, because we're doing it as a, as a gift, it is ultimately selfless and it's razor thin the difference between that. So is it about you or is it about you? Know, it's a universal theme that you're touching and to me that is the difference. Yes, so it's really that it's not the what or the why, it really is the how, it really is how we go through that shadow. That is all the difference. And if we're doing it and you know, like hurting ourselves to do it, then I don't think it helps anybody.

Speaker 1: 47:48

Yeah, I agree, that's a great way to put it. I love that, jamie. I love it. One question also about okay, so you've been in the spiritual community, you've been in the acting community, you know you kind of put those two worlds together and help people through your coaching and also your creative expressions as well. But what do you think about? Like, in the spiritual community there's a thing where people don't want to see the dark side of things. They want to stay in the light all the time. Have you seen that aspect in the spiritual community? Oh, the spiritual bypass.

Speaker 2: 48:26

The spiritual bypassing. Yeah, I wish I could play this on your. It's so funny. I'll send this to you privately. It's a little Romdoss talk. It's like six minutes and he talks about that, the value of processing, that we need to process our emotions, we need to know that there's darkness inside of us, we need to know that there's death and facing all of those things, like we've got to do this. But he's like but we can't stay there. And then there's also the kind of the Buddhist or the like detachment and the non-emotional of separation from it and witnessing it and being detached from it, but we can't stay there.

Speaker 2: 49:12

Let's say somebody is their kid or a grief happens. It's like I'm just going to be an equanimity and I'm going to meditate through it. It's like I just don't know that there's anything valuable there. So I really believe that it again, it's about balance. It's about balance of we can tell when somebody's just been kind of privileged and everything's worked out for them. And then they're like oh, it's so easy to manifest. And it's like yeah, it was easy to manifest with your trust fund, like you know what I'm saying, Like let's get real as opposed to.

Speaker 2: 49:50

I think on some level, manifestation is could be true, but to me manifestation comes from hard work, accountability and trustability and consistency, and then I think we manifest something when it has integrity. That's how I've seen it.

Speaker 1: 50:09

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 50:10

Right. And so to me, it's like we can all smell when we're being sold something. We all can tell when it's not authentic. And then there's a weird thing where somebody is like, bro, you're being way too authentic, you're the private, so it's sort of like this weird balance and I don't know how we do it. I don't know how we do it because there's stuff that's appropriate and but I also, you know, I'm of the more of the, you know, the aquarium coach, not the Pycean coach.

Speaker 2: 50:46

So I share my vulnerabilities with the men in my men's group and my artists way I share when I'm having a bad day. I don't always go into details, but I go hey, this has been really rough for me recently. Yeah, I'm really doing my best with it, and that's never seemed to turn anybody off. It actually is a bit of a relief If somebody's like, yeah, I'm winning, I'm great, I'm this, oh girl. And inside I'm just like 17 weagles running around, like it's just like we can because I'm a voice coach, like you can hear it, like you can hear when somebody's not speaking the truth, you just feel it. And so to me it's like I'm doing this because I'm I know I'm not consciously lying about anything in my life, but I want to always make sure that I'm being as authentic as possible, and so the spiritual bypass really robs us of our greatest gift as a coach, which is that we've been through it too.

Speaker 1: 51:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:49

We've been through it too. We've had heartbreak, we've been abandoned, we've worked through our stuff and hey, here's how you do it. Somebody described this really beautifully like the difference between a coach and a therapist a coach or a sponsor in recovery. It's like for a therapist, they don't want your experience. Like with my therapists and that I've worked with, I don't want their experience. Right, it creeps me out. I want their expertise. Yeah, I don't want to know anything about my therapist Right.

Speaker 1: 52:25

That's the same for me too.

Speaker 2: 52:25

Actually, Right, Exactly Well you're a therapist, I'm going to talk and we're going to go through, and that's. I need your expertise and your degree on the wall. That's why I'm here. If I'm working with a coach or, you know, again, in the 12th step, recovery, when I'm working with a sponsor, I want their experience and expertise. But I want to go. Hey, I said, how did you write that book? Yeah, how did you do it? Jamie, how did you do that performance? How do you do that voice thing? How do you show up in your life, in men's work? How did you stay sober? I then share the allegories of my story. I'd be a terrible therapist because I'm constantly making reference to how I did it.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Yeah, I'm not a therapist and I don't.

Speaker 2: 53:13

That's so part of the coaching bypass is. It's like, actually, your experience is what makes you a good coach. Hmm, yeah, and you're not sharing out of being, you're making it about yourself. You're going hey, you're not alone. Hey, this is how I did it. Here's a way and here's how I went through a breakup. Here's how I went through this trauma. I remember when I studied with John Wymanland. The reason why I studied with John for seven years was because I was so impressed with how he was a father to Claire and how he still was showing up for me while he was being this amazing father and was so human in his vulnerability and I'm like how did you do this? I need to know how you did it. And so he did the opposite of the bypass he actually really embraced. The heartbreak and the grief became an enormous part of why I think he's as powerful as of a teacher he is today, and so I think that those that are bypassing they're only cheating themselves.

Speaker 1: 54:26

Yeah, and it's. It's like you're saying I love that and you're saying that humility, you know, being humble and being human, you know, is really what people need for that connection. And you know, for me also, yes, I wanted some. I want to be coached by someone who's been through this before you know and can give me, you know, some guidance there. So, yes, I agree with that so much, and I think there's a lot of coaches that have not actually had a lot of life experience yet to go through some of those things and they act like they can help people and that's cool too, but you know, it might not be.

Speaker 2: 55:06

Wow, it's not that cool.

Speaker 1: 55:09

I know it's not very cool at all actually.

Speaker 2: 55:11

Like, as you said, and I was like I don't know if that's true.

Speaker 2: 55:13

You know, there's a reason why I don't think I really became like a coach. I mean, I was those 14, 2014,. I assisted essentially for six years before I led my own men's program. I started my own men's program, I think, at 42, 43, before I actually kind of knew my ass from my elbow, like, I mean, I knew how to be an acting coach, I knew how to do that, I knew how to be a voice coach and I was able to do some career coaching, but I wasn't able to really be the kind of life coach that I am today, an executive coach that I am today, because I've helped make multimillion dollar projects happen and worked with people in pieces that are on these things, and it's like, oh, I've done it, enough to go, I have some experience and I did it while I was going through some of the hardest times of my life and still was able to do both things and take care of myself and have privacy and also be authentic. And it's just, it's so nuanced and it's layer by layer.

Speaker 2: 56:23

And then, and also the other thing I'll share about that is, I think, patience. I think it's like none of this healing and none of this work has to happen overnight or in just one year. It's like you know, as Miles Davis said, it takes a long time to sound like yourself and maybe when I do the artist's way this year I might only really tune up and come in into integrity around two or three things tops. Maybe I'm gonna type without, maybe I'll edit better and do typos better, maybe I'll be able to do make sure that I'm getting my auditions out there more often. Like whatever the things are, it's like it doesn't all have to happen today. It's like do your best but also just know it takes time. One of my favorite things I heard from a coach once was we often overestimate what we can accomplish in a year, but we underestimate what we can accomplish in 10.

Speaker 2: 57:29

Yeah, I remember when you said that If I were to, really look back at 2014 to 2024, which is interesting that you said that. It's like, wow, my life is massively different, my impact is massively different. And it's like, whoa, look at all that has been created in that time and now like oh, my God it's a new year, what am I gonna do in this new year?

Speaker 2: 57:49

And it's like, well, what if I actually looked at it Like, what do I wanna do these next 10 years? And I think I'd actually be more connected and deeper and more calm and actually maybe even accomplish more next year if my goal is to be like it's gonna take 10.

Speaker 1: 58:06

Yeah, because you're giving yourself space right.

Speaker 2: 58:10

And know that it's like I gotta start now and this is not gonna be. They said it when I remember, when I first got sober they said you really don't pull your head out of your butt as an addict for 10 years 14 now. Yeah, it's been about 10 years of sobriety to finally go. Oh, I'm sober after six months, like, for me, that just wasn't, even though I didn't drink for six months. It just took time to heal and to live in this new energy. And that takes it just takes time and it's painful. It's really painful, but it's so worth it, because the other pain is like the groundhog day. I'm back doing the same shit over and over again, and to me, that's why, like the lotus flower, the lotus flower is connected to that beautiful flower. It grows out of shit.

Speaker 1: 59:12

Right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:13

So if you wanna put this beautiful stuff out on the world, you gotta be connected to your shit.

Speaker 1: 59:18

I like that and I like how you said it takes a long time to find your voice. Miles Davis said that. Right, is that what?

Speaker 2: 59:27

you. Was that the chorus? It takes a long time to sound like yourself.

Speaker 1: 59:29

To sound like yourself. That's it, yes, and I've experienced that and I know in what I wonder sometimes like why does it take us so long to sound like ourselves? Because we should have been able to sound like ourselves from day one, but it just takes as long as it takes, I guess. But yes, I've been on this journey myself.

Speaker 2: 59:51

It just takes a minute. There's an artist right now, this guy named, I think, oliver Anthony. He has a song out called Northman, north of Richmond, and he wrote a song and again, not taking political, but the song is so riveting and it encapsulate, it was like. But he was probably playing music for 20 years, you know. Just, he does put it on the internet and then it's his over sensation, but it's like it wasn't, like he just learned to play the song that day and now the song is out.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

It's like we're going through this the whole time, and maybe it's not that it's taking you along to sound like yourself. It's that maybe you haven't yet aligned fully to the audience that you're meant to have. I think you sound a lot like yourself, as I do too. It's just who knows who's listening and what when the world really needs our voice. So we have to constantly be cultivating it over time, and the people that I admire are the people who are truly dedicated to being a good person and a good creator, and those two things are one and the same.

Speaker 1: 1:00:57

Yeah, I love that. Well, let's make sure that we talk about the artist's way and just give everybody just an idea of what that is and when it's happening and all the details.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

I extended it a week, the starting of it, just because the first day is the day right after New Year's, yeah right, and I just was feeling a little bit of pressure and I wanted to give space. I ended up moving the workshop to the end of March, so it's Tuesday nights 6 pm Pacific time. It's about 75 minutes. So it'll be guest teachers. It's going to be amazing of the people we had.

Speaker 1: 1:01:34

I'll be teaching.

Speaker 2: 1:01:35

You will be guest teachers. And so will John Bukhati, and so will Brie, and I have a few others, and then there's a Zoom open room that people anyone can join, that we write in in the morning, but it can be it's open 24 hours. And then we'll have writing buddies and I'll partner people up to have accountability.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

You say writing buddies.

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

And then a three-day workshop in Ohio. Yeah, you can even. It's just like a WhatsApp so you can just say, hey, I did my writing. It's like a daily accountability to your person. I've found that that really helped, and helps to have an accountability buddy. But it's just meeting with artists and going through each chapter per week, so it lasts a total of 13 weeks because there's the introduction and then it goes to the end of March. There's it's a 2,500 for everything, so it's the catering in the final workshop, if you well get into the workshop later.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

You would spend that much just on a retreat, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:02:43

Yeah, I know, I know it's three months, You're getting both. You had a one-on-one session with me but yeah, it's 13 calls and a retreat for 2,500.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

That's amazing. And then you I just love the accountability. You kind of cut out a little bit. That's why I wanted you to repeat that. But the accountability buddy is great because you get the extra support from people and that connection from people in the group as well, and it's just an amazing program. And the fact that you offer the writing every morning too, that's incredible. I mean, I don't know if people understand how much time you put into this and how much you offer, but it is a big deal and that's a lot, a lot of support. So, if you're listening and you're wanting to write a book, this is how I started my book. I just started writing every day, every morning, started with morning pages, if you're familiar with the artist's way, and it really facilitated that for me and my ability to be creative that way. So I highly recommend, if you're working on a creative project or you just wanna kind of you know, clear the clutter for the new year, this is a perfect opportunity to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:58

Oh, it's the best New Year's resolution there is, because it actually has sustenance to it and it's like and we hold you accountable, and this is the fourth year I've done it, so I've gotten really like clear, like I know how to run it and it almost runs itself, if in a way now, because the people that have joined have joined again, keep joining again, and so it's just like the first year I was like what am I doing? And like thank you for fumbling through it with me the first time. But now it's like a really well-willed machine and we will serve you guys and I would love any of your people. So thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:04:35

Yeah, well, thank you, jamie. Thanks for coming on. And where can they sign up for that? Do you have a website they can go to? I can leave it in the show notes as well.

Speaker 2: 1:04:43

Yeah, there you have the link that I sent you and you could also go through jaymeowallrubcom and you can sign up through that. You can do a free consultation with me. You want to talk to me about it one-on-one, if it's right for you, and I'm looking forward to it. We begin January 9th.

Speaker 1: 1:05:04

Awesome Thanks.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

Jamie, all right, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:05:07

Allison, your life is your greatest work of art and it all relates back to the same finesse, the same finesse, the same finesse, the same finesse. Thank you.