EP: 184 - Heal the spine heal the mind with Dr. Cliff Oliver

Dr. Cliff Oliver joins us to shed light on the profound mind-spine connection, an area often overlooked in our quest for health but essential to our vitality.

 Dr. Oliver shares  personal experiences that reveal how chiropractic care can empower you to understand your bodily temple and pave the way to profound personal growth.

We talk about one of his mentors, Dr. Heidi Haavik and her research on the affects of chiropractic care for the spine and brain connection.  How chiropractic care can transform your mental state and accelerate healing. 

We also examine the challenges posed by modern lifestyles, such as overmedication and excessive phone use and discuss strategies for nurturing a positive mental environment.

We discuss the media's influence on our dreams and perceptions and  touch upon the health benefits of maintaining a positive mental space within both your personal environment and outside surroundings.   

The Reality Check by Heidi Haavik
https://www.amazon.com/Reality-Check-understand-Chiropractic-inside/dp/0473276518

Connect with Dr. Cliff Oliver here:
Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/centerforbalancecliff/
@centerforbalancecliff
Website:
https://www.surfphotolajolla.com

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Your life is your greatest work of art, and it all relates back to the synchronicity of the sun.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Welcome to Integrate Yourself, everybody. I'm your host, alison Palau, and you can find me at FinelyThrivingProgramcom and alisonpalaucom. I've been teaching wellness, holistic health. I've been a holistic personal trainer for almost 20 years now and I've brought all this wisdom over the years into a book called Finally Thriving, and what I do in this book is I take you on a journey of aligning the mind, connecting with the body and then learning how to listen to your spirit. I really wanted to give everybody a holistic journey of health, of all the things and all the aspects I've learned about health over the years, and bring it into a holistic journey for each person, and I've been pleasantly surprised by people's response to the book. It has been a joy and a delight to hear what people get from it. So if you're really interested in checking out my book, you can head over to the link in my show notes or you can go to amazoncom. You can get the paper back, and I also have an audiobook that's available with my voice, because, you know, I'm really just planting seeds for people.

Speaker 2: 1:45

I am sharing the wisdom that I've taken in over the years. You know through experience, because that's what wisdom is and I think we forget. We get that really confused with taking in information. We take so much information on a daily basis through AI, through social media, through media in general watching TV, watching news, all of these things and we forget about wisdom. Wisdom is lived experience, and that is actually more important than just information, you know, because wisdom is information that has been applied and has therefore been experienced. So when you can have wisdom in your life, it's really wonderful when you're able to share that with other people. And so that's what I've done through the years with holistic wellness, holistic personal training, fitness and nutrition and lifestyle healthy lifestyles too, you know. And that's even spilled into spirituality, as I've really been diving deeper into that in my life, really mostly this past five years, pretty deep, and then, with the, what I'm learning about spirituality is, it all comes back and relates to your emotional health, your emotional wellness. How well are we regulating our emotions? How well are we really just, or how often not even well? How often are we feeling our emotions? What are we suppressing, what are we hiding from ourselves? And emotions are actually a wonderful gift for us to calibrate and and give us some awareness on where we are, you know, in this whole thing, and so moving emotions through can sometimes be tough. It can sometimes be an art in itself. You can express your emotions and I think that's one of the healthiest things to do instead of hold it in your body, because we know when we hold emotions in our body, they tend to stay there and they tend to create resistance and inflexibility in our physical bodies too. So that's why it's important to learn how to allow these to move through.

Speaker 2: 4:16

In today's episode, I have Dr Cliff Oliver back on the show again and we're talking about the mind spine connection here, because he's a chiropractor. He's been a chiropractor holistically for years now and he's got so much wisdom to share about the mind spine connection. And we get into one of his mentors too today and he shares what he had learned from her, and we're going to be also sharing her research and how. It's really pretty amazing that now we're putting it together I guess the mainstream maybe is more putting it together that actually chiropractic does work, you know, because there is a real connection between your spine and your brain, and so when your spine is healthy, your brain is healthy, your body is healthy, and so these are the things that we really talk about today. We get into that and it was such a fun conversation. So I hope you enjoy today's conversation as much as I did In today's episode. We just got right into the conversation.

Speaker 2: 5:26

I didn't even get a chance to really introduce Dr Cliff Oliver, but he has been a real influence in my own life because I remember meeting him years ago at the Czech Institute and he was one of the teachers and he taught us about functional health and all kinds of stuff low tech, testing and these kinds of things. It was really cool and I always loved his approach to teaching and I think that's because he really doesn't take life so seriously. He looks at life as a great exploration and I love his playfulness, his openness to creativity and understanding that it's sometimes things come to us when we're not thinking so hard about them and when we can go off and do something else and then maybe the answers come. So he really opened me up to music. He was the first person to really open me up to learning how to play music. I never thought of myself as a creative person before and when I saw him playing the Dizard Dizard, I think, is that's how you say it it's one of those big, long instruments that they play in Australia.

Speaker 2: 6:41

I was like, wow, and he would play the flute as well and he would sell flutes. And one time I bought a flute from him and I think we talked about this on the last show when I had him on is he? It was a beautiful handmade walnut flute that one of his good friends made and I bought it from him. And his friend passed away a couple of years ago and he was asking around if anybody still had one of those flutes. And I'm like I have that flute. I bought it from you years ago and he asked if he could buy it back for me because his friend had passed away and there was no way of being able to get another flute like that again, because his friend made those and there was none he didn't have and he had lost his and he didn't have any any way to get another one. So he asked me if he could have mine and I said, sure, I'm not really using it, so please do. And first, whatever reason, that just kind of sparked my first of all sparked our connection again and we started becoming friends. And secondly, it really sparked my curiosity about creativity and getting back into music again and so I started playing the ukulele, I started singing again, and so these things are part of health.

Speaker 2: 7:58

The all this stuff is is integral to your health journey. It's it's very important to be able to be creative and to do other things. Instead of just thinking about the food and the fitness aspect all the time. Although those are very important, you need to also move into other creative endeavors in your life, things that you'd really love to do, so that you can play. Play is something that we really don't think is very important in our life, but it's very important, so I talk about this in my book. I share this concept.

Speaker 2: 8:34

In my class, finally thriving, we have another one coming up January 25. You can register until February 8. I'm going to keep registration open till then. It's a three month course and coaching program that I lead every week with a live coaching session. It's a live session. It's online and if you miss the session, you can always go back and watch it because it's recorded. And then it a course comes with it the finally thriving course, and you can. You'll get one module a week and we're going to go through that together with a loving, supported group. We always have a loving and supportive group in those classes, and so this is probably going to be no different. So I'd love for you to join if you want. If you'd like, I'm going to leave the link in the show notes and you can join or set up a free discovery call with me too.

Speaker 2: 9:25

But I just wanted to share that story because I you know, cliff is so dear to my heart, because he really inspired me with his wisdom, and so I'm going to, I want to take that and inspire others with my wisdom, and I hope you'll do that too, because I think that's what we're here to do. I think that's what we're here to do is to inspire each other with the wisdom and not hold back, not hide it, just share it. So I'll leave you all with that today and I want to send you all so much love and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening today. Enjoy this show Without further ado. It's my honor and my pleasure to introduce you to Dr Cliff Oliver Enjoy.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Your life is your greatest work of art, and it all relates back to the synchronicity.

Speaker 2: 10:43

Yeah, oh, my God, yeah, I was. So much has happened since I last talked to you, so yeah, what's going on? Time to connect again. Yeah, I mean, you know, gosh, what's going on a lot. There's like a spiritual war going on, cliff.

Speaker 3: 11:04

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:05

You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 11:06

I do, I do.

Speaker 2: 11:09

So I've just got this calling to just bring people back into their bodies, because I feel like there is a, there is something going on that is just just deliberately disconnecting people from their bodies.

Speaker 3: 11:23

So I totally agree.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:26

Yeah, and it's mainly fear. So the more fear you can get about anything elections, climate, anything, hurricane, hillary, whatever it is the more you're going to be locked into a pattern in the brain where you can't function Exactly. Functions get turned down. You end up being free. Finally, you lose all that. You end up back in your limbic system and just responding to the fears and you see it. You see it in the people. You see it in how people respond to each other. It's pretty dramatic and it's apparently fairly worldwide.

Speaker 2: 14:23

Yeah, it really puts you in a state of an illusion of like, with almost like blinders, where you can't really see any solutions or any other perspectives or views on what's happening. You know, you just feel like you're almost, it's like a virtual reality, basically, in my opinion, and yeah, and so I wanted to have you on today, cliff, because we you sit well, first of all, I'll go back. You sent me this clip of one of your teachers, heidi Havoc, and she was on Russell Brand, and is that how you say her name, heidi Havoc?

Speaker 3: 15:00

She pronounces a little different. How about it's pronounced? She's Norwegian, it's an Norwegian name, so it's pronounced a little different. But I think Havoc is pretty good.

Speaker 2: 15:08

Okay, I'll do the. You know the southern you know the.

Speaker 2: 15:15

Georgia accent, but yeah, so she was talking with Russell Brand about chiropractic and how it there's this she did this study of her own and she did it to find out the kind of prove that spine brain connection and how chiropractic can really change our perspective quite literally and open us up to a new way of perceiving both our body and our lives and, in my opinion, it brings us to a higher state of consciousness as well.

Speaker 2: 15:49

So anytime you have more awareness in your life, this will expand your consciousness. So, meaning like, just like we've been talking, get you out of that small, limited space of being in fear mode and out into more opportunity, more more love in your life, greater understanding of yourself and others and the world that we live in, because it's it's starting to break down, like those foundations that we just took, that we just took for granted that we're always going to be there or not there anymore and they're falling apart. So I think it all starts with your body, as we were talking before, and that's what I've been on a path of doing is helping people get back into their bodies, really find the empowerment within being in a body and then, once you find that and you know how to take care of your body and you. You open yourself up to all these different ways of healing, and then what this does is it then you can begin to take in and embody higher aspects of yourself and live that way. So I think it all starts there.

Speaker 3: 16:59

Right. I mean with what's going on in the world is people getting up in their head more and more and they're being quite disconnected. It's one of the reasons I like things like somatic, experiencing pula veins work coming back into the body. I often tell my clients get out of your head, get into your body, go for a walk, get grounded, put your feet on the ground, because we get so wound up. We get so wound up in our heads that their story goes back to Byron Katie. Their story becomes what we live. And is the story really true? And frequently we could say it's not true.

Speaker 3: 17:36

It's our perception and those perceptions get changed and modified by our input, from our sensory input, and that sensory input can be impacted, which Heidi, dr Heidi shows by clearly from our spine, our spine alignment, our movement, our motions. Those things affect all that and can be changed. I love it. So, yeah, it's pretty wicked. We see a lot of biohacking going on online and people trying to do things to their brain and take different supplements and methylene blues and go and get hyperbaric chambers or whatever, and if they got their spinal aligned or spinal aligned, they might find it a little easier than going out and doing all this other stuff I used to like to tell my students. They said you want to change yourself the most dramatically quickest? Just lie in bed in the morning and laugh for 10 minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:39

Right, so that takes you out of your mind, because it's a little hard to think about all the fear based things you're going to face during the day of obligations or past experience or whatever. If you're laughing for 10 minutes and I'd say the number of people who actually did that thousands of clients and students and stuff was minimal If I can count them on two hands, it's just not that many so they're out chasing around and then they're being directed and propagandized to be in a fear state constantly. So, yeah, getting out of the head into the body is a great one, and I think she points out clearly in that video that you can enhance that, you can create that with some spinal adjustments, which I think is wicked. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:32

It's so funny because when I watched that, I watched that the video of her in the interview with Russell and it just in Russell's response, reminded me of people, general public's response to chiropractic medicine still to this day. It's like there's this disconnect that actually works and I'm looking at that saying no judgment. It's because we have been disconnected severely from even our bodies, just knowing the vessel that we are living in right now. But just think about how your spine is literally connected to your brain and it's all about electromagnetic conduction of energy going through and it's like and just think of anything you know, any wires that have been pinched off or redirected. That's going to be the same thing that happens in your body, you know. So it's funny to me that people have such a hard time wrapping their heads around this concept that chiropractic is is really amazing for healing.

Speaker 2: 20:44

It actually promotes healing in the body and better thinking, you know, and better, better lives, you know, just a higher quality of life.

Speaker 3: 20:54

Yeah, I mean, you know it's been embedded again for the public, general public, to fear chiropractic because the AMA, the medical associations, have been on a 100% war path against chiropractic since the 1920s and they've suppressed it, interfered with the boards and appeared with the ability for people to get licenses to practice, restricting scope to practice. I mean it's pretty wicked. And finally, in the 70s there's a big lawsuit and the chiropractors won it for you know, the AMA particularly, but the medical profession in general, of suppressing it. But the lawsuit winning it didn't change anything. They got like I think they got like a $10 fine or something like that After years of being in court, proving that you know here's a valid modality for health.

Speaker 3: 21:51

Some countries around the world, like Italy for instance, I had friends who graduated from school and they went to Italy and people got to get their 10 visits a year, no matter what, paying whatever, and they got to go get adjusted. And friends of mine were seeing hundreds of people a day because people lined up to get freed up and get their spine moving, keep their spine aligned, you know, having a whole change in their outlook on life and how they were interfacing with other people. So, unfortunately, in our state here in the US and Western world. That hasn't happened so much, so I was really excited to see that interview with Russell Brand. I was like.

Speaker 3: 22:35

That's why I tagged you in it. It's so exciting. It's like, wow, maybe we're gonna get out there.

Speaker 2: 22:41

Finally, after all these years, you know it's almost like and I think part of it is that until you have experienced it it's hard for people also to understand how that works. But you know, and you and I have been in this in the business of healing bodies for some time now, so in different ways, so we understand the little differently. But for the average person it has been, you know, fed information that like out. You know you need to outsource, you know your healing it doesn't come from within, but the reality is your body heals itself. You're just using tool, different tools, for that. And so you know, in my opinion chiropractic is one of the most natural ways that the body can heal, because it promotes circulation and you know it clears way for the right signals to get in through your body and, you know, prevents accidents and those kinds of things. You know.

Speaker 3: 23:43

Yeah, I think part of the problem kind of arose on the premise of the start of it with Palmer. Just did somebody T3 and the hearing came back. And the medical establishment cannot buy into that. How could you adjust the thoracic spine in their hearing come back and then they labeled that the subluxation, meaning that wherever the problem was, that he fixed was a subluxation. So was it dislocated, it was just minorly displaced and those two things I think set the whole profession on this fight to try and be recognized and be modality. But that's changing.

Speaker 3: 24:28

In her work, dr Heidi's work is so big because it shows that it's not a little subluxation, it's just not a bone out of place, but it's really an impact into the brain and you're really affecting the brain in quite conclusive ways. And it changes the brain, it changes the pre-clumped cortex, it changes how you perceive all your senses. You get adjusted. Wow, things look clearer. How cool is that? Things sound different and I can tell you from personal experience that I had.

Speaker 3: 25:00

I was surfing. I was quite into surfing in college and made surfboards, made thousands of them, but I was surfing in, of all places, malia, lahaina, where they just had that huge fire and my parents were members of the Lahaina Yacht Club so I'd go over there and I was surfing and I got this radical ear infection because in those days the hotels kind of dumped a lot of it sewage wasn't processed very well, the water was fairly polluted got a massive ear infection, lost the hearing 100% in my right ear. I came back to the US, saw all these specialists. They went oh wow, this is like so sorry, so sad. You know your toast, it was pretty weird having hearing in one side of your body and not in the other. It's pretty disorienting. There's lots of stuff you kind of count on, especially with hearing. As far as traffic, I mean simple things you wouldn't expect.

Speaker 3: 25:57

So about eight months later, 10 months later, I've just seen all these specialists. I'm sitting at the couch watching a football game which was off to my left. So I'm sitting on the couch my head's turned to the left and I'm kind of watching this football game, something exciting happens. They go wow, am I hearing? Pop back in and it like came in.

Speaker 3: 26:18

I was like what? How is this possible? This is like it was an infected ear lost all my hearing and I turn my head back. I'm like I'm telling all the people around me oh, you won't believe this, am I hearing? Just came back and then it faded fairly quickly within an hour. But I knew at that moment that it had something different than due than a localized injury and we can say the same thing with localized back problems and all sorts of things. But hearing pretty catches your attention and so I go holy smokes and so I dove deeper into why that might have occurred and came out like certain adjustments, all these different things I did that. I got 80, almost 85% of my hearing path. Wow, I'm doing that. So that was a big aha moment for me.

Speaker 2: 27:06

And again, what got you into?

Speaker 3: 27:08

chiropractic. It was part of it, so that was part of it definitely lead in one of the big things that got me into it. I attended the first holistic health conferences in the world in San Diego in the mid 70s, called the Mandala conferences, and at the time I was getting my degree at San Diego State and I ended up getting it in switched majors from Naval architecture because of calculus didn't quite agree with my Constitution and so I went from a naval architect and I went to San Diego State to be on the sailing team. So I thought, well, yeah, that's well too on design boats, but midway through calculus and it funny little funny aside on that my grandfather was an engineer at Caltech and he designed the Mount Palomar telescope, the base supports for it, and he oversaw the grinding of the mirror. He is very German engineer guy.

Speaker 3: 28:03

Wow, yeah, and I see him for calculus and you go, oh see, it's so simple. But he was really big on posture. He's really big on, you know, you have to have this good posture and balance and stuff like that. You know, being a teenager and little bit old where you're kind of like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can just hang out. But that leaves this whole thing with technique and we'll get into that, but so in, yeah. So I changed careers, went to nursing I was thinking of becoming a psychiatrist at the time and I went to the first Mandala conference and some of the presenters became lifetime friends. One of them was Paul Brenner, brilliant medical doctor, obgyn surgeon, later became a PhD, wonderful guy.

Speaker 3: 28:49

And but another one was John Fee and he developed touch for health oh yeah and so I was totally captured by that, because here you are getting people healthy each other like, right, you're not like being on a high plain, unapproachable medical doctor in a white coat, you're like learning skill sets to share with each other to become healthier, and they all based on reflex points and balance and neural lymphatics and all this different stuff. So I was like, well, that is pretty much since I decided to go visiting at his office and I had no idea at the time he was a chiropractor, so I go up to visiting. He was in pasty and altitude in area. I go up there. I go to his office, got a big office, couple stories with a basement, all these doctors running around, patients running around.

Speaker 3: 29:43

Next story, yet another building for a bookstore. Other side was a building for a classroom. I'm going well, how cool is this? You can teach people how to be healthy and you got books and stuff people can study a book person. So that was like a hot moment. I go in and I realized on the door that he's actually a chiropractor and.

Speaker 3: 30:05

I'm like blown away. And there's all these other chiropractors work I think at four or five working for him at the time, but they were seeing clients who wanted to be. Well, there was a couple of dodger players in the other day was spent today. There was like some famous track stars, the high jumper, a couple runners, and they're walking around like not because they're injured, they're walking around because they want to be better. So I'm like blown away with that. And then I go upstairs to his office and his office is like four tables in a room, open room with mirrors, and the patients are sitting there adjusting each other with like reflex points and doing muscle testing and they're checking points and going what and his clients had to learn this touch for health to become a client and going he's on to something pretty good and then he'd take them after they did their balancing each other. You take them in the other room with private room and he adjusts his spine and so I was talking to him as well. This is pretty amazing. I really liked your course. I liked your presentation at the mandala conference.

Speaker 3: 31:09

He says, well, you need to go to chiropractic school. Well, that was like okay, and sure enough, he said oh, you got to go to my school. I went to Los Angeles chiropractic chiropractic college. You know, I give you a reference, you gotta go check it out. So I did and that career changed from a psychiatrist kind of situation to that and just a little side on that, when I was in my nursing program in San Diego state you had to do a rotation in the mental health department. Mine was at Mercy hospital and they were in there literally doing electroshock therapy to 16 year olds 14 year olds. That dazed them for days. They had no idea where they were and I went oh, this is much better, I can do some points against it replace. I get some energy flowing. People fill it in their hands, their eyes light up, they're like happy.

Speaker 2: 32:02

Yay, yeah, so that's what got me into chiropractic that's so cool I did yeah that we could use that right now. More of that, don't you think turn people on, you know, light them up, you know exactly and again going back to Heidi's work.

Speaker 3: 32:19

Dr Heidi, she's showing that when you do turn them on, their brain changes, and not only does it change, it like functions better, they see things differently, their hearing becomes better, their balance changes, a lot of different things happen, and she wrote a wonderful book. That's how, when I saw her, she just finished her book and she was, you know, doing workshops on what she had found out. So I'd highly recommend whoever's listening to this watch that Russell brand interview. She has lots of interviews online on YouTube, but the Russell brand one is just sweet. It's just concise, it's 30 minutes, it's not been take up all day and if you don't even spired you might as well be. Well, I'm gonna say dad, but you are partly dead. So and then her books a really good book. It's a short book, it's not very long. It's called the reality check.

Speaker 3: 33:12

Yeah website based off of it yeah, she's got little videos embedded in the book. It's electronic, but you know it's an ebook. I don't know if there's a hard copy there might be, but I'd get the electronic version because she has embedded tags that take you to videos that she's made of different aspects. So pretty exciting. So, yeah, let me give one more thing that she did. That's really fascinating. That I love is she did a study with this other person and they study people about. You know the concept of play it forward or feedback, feed forward loops. So our body runs basically on feedback loops. When our thyrids too high, because the feedback loop and it goes down our temperatures too high, right back we cool down. Well, there's a feed for loop and the feed for loop is that if we're going to raise our hands up, the feed for it is is before we ever raise them, we send a signal to our core and we stabilize our spine right so stabilizing our core, feed for right.

Speaker 3: 34:20

We're gonna move our arms and our body knows that before, does it. It says this quick message to our core to stabilize, to activate, to get, you know, turned on. And so they took 90 young men and they measured them. If, when they raise their arms, if they turned on their core, you know, just, emg is just simple little test and 17 of this of the 90 did not. Now these were, nobody had discomfort, nobody had pain, nobody had to ensure they're young, healthy, you know, young men. So six months later they measure them again and the same 17, still dysfunctional.

Speaker 3: 35:04

So now, if you think about this, if I have dysfunctional core and I'm doing these motions movements, maybe I get involved with some sports or golf, that's a good one. And what am I gonna be doing if I can't, if I activate my core till after the fact, I'm going to blow out a back, I'm gonna blow out a disc, I'm gonna get changes, I'm gonna get weird tear, much more dramatic. And then that's about how many people get back problems right, 17 out of 90, severe back problems, changes, et cetera. So what they did in this test was they had the chiropractor again measure sacred iliac joint motion movement. You can do that really easy with lifting up the leg or pushing on the SI joint and they were dysfunctional. So they gave an adjustment, boom, and there was a 40% improvement after one adjustment 40% improvement.

Speaker 3: 35:58

So I'm going wow, all these teams, these pop born teams. They do these physicals if you can play it, if you can play football, physicals to play any sports in high school and college, all these sorts of things. Are they checking that, are they looking at? Are they activating their core or are they just making them do sit ups all day?

Speaker 2: 36:21

That's what I was gonna say. It's the extreme right Because we have too much core work over doing it, which also shuts it off in a way right. And if they're not?

Speaker 3: 36:33

activating it, they can do all the core work they wanna do. Six months later they're gonna check them again and they'll lift their arms up and, oh, but man, I'm cut. I got my six pack, yeah, but it's not functional.

Speaker 2: 36:45

Yeah, it's not functioning the way core is supposed to function and actually you're supposed to relax your core most of the time, right? People don't know that. They feel like they have to hold them in, and what that does is it puts you in a perpetual state of your rib cage being flared out like a blowfish, right, and you don't ever relax that rib cage down. So that actually puts you in more of a sympathetic fight, or?

Speaker 3: 37:13

flight mode right. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty amazing. So, I know everybody should run out and get their adjustment today.

Speaker 2: 37:22

I feel like it should be part of a healthcare plan, like that's the real healthcare. And it's so weird how the medications have taken over. It's not weird, I mean, I know why, but it's the moneymaker right. But if people had empowered wellness and knew that they could heal themselves and had the skills to do that, then you wouldn't be able to make as much money in healthcare as they are doing with the pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 3: 37:52

That's another thing she brought up was our perception is our reality. So our reality is not really real. In a sense, it's our perception of it and that's based on what we've learned, what we've experienced, what we expect to see and stuff like that. And John Kevin Zinn was big on that. So when I saw him speak, he was real big on showing a presentation of things that weren't really happening. So there was a couple hundred people that had hit one of his presentations and he shows us people standing in front of an elevator and a gorilla walks through bouncing a ball, and then he asked the audience how many times and he told us count how many times the gorilla bounces the ball. And he asked the audience and the audience went from 14 to 20, how many times did he bounce the ball? The perception of two hundred people was like very few people got the exact number, which, as I recall, is something like 17. I'm like, oh man, that's disgusting.

Speaker 2: 38:45

Yeah, which makes you think, wow, what a big difference, right, yeah?

Speaker 3: 38:50

yeah. So she's showing, and there are studies that this thing with this pre-channel cortex and the brain changes is one of them is how we perceive pain, and so we've got this whole epidemic of pain going on now and we've got this whole opioid problem in the country, and I think that's one of the things that's going to bring chiropractic more to the front, because most people realize that it helps with back pain, not realizing it helps with almost every kind of pain, because it alters your perception of what that pain is. So I think that opioid crisis I don't know if anybody watched the movie Pain Killer or the Pharmacist, but you should watch both those because they're like horrifying. But that's what's going on and now, instead of that, which was in 2000 to 2015 or so, and now it's fit and all and it's about people trying to change their perception, when maybe they could just get their spine and their function going better, which she shows absolutely changes the brain interpretation of events. Wow, how cool would that be?

Speaker 3: 40:02

Doctor goes to the pain clinic. Well, did you get your 20 adjustments already? Pretty adjustments. No, I'm here for my script, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Yeah, yeah. And then with the adjustments goes the program that you do on your own to keep those adjustments right, so there has to be.

Speaker 2: 40:22

There's a level of self-responsibility and then, as that continues, the higher level of understanding of what's happening in your body. Because, working with clients over the years who are coming off injuries, they're very depressed in the beginning. They feel like this is something that cannot change, that they're gonna be like this for the rest of their lives. And what I tell them is no, like, this is just the beginning of your journey. Here it's you're taking it one step at a time and you're going to improve. You just gotta start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and just take it one step at a time, you know, and gradually they, you know, as your body starts to align itself, you start to feel stronger, more stable. Your brain feels that, you know, like that is literally what. You start to embody that energy.

Speaker 2: 41:10

But, like for you know, yeah, we have tons of medications to just take the pain away or the depression, you know, but that's never. It never seems to be a solution for people because it's not an empowered way to do it. You're searching the solution from outside yourself instead of from within, and I'm telling people a lot lately, like it's, you can't find the answers outside yourself. You know you can find support. You can find, you know, guidance and those kinds of things, but you first have to go in to find the right kind of guidance, the right kind of support right, right yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:50

When you're in pain. It's different, though, too, so you know that's a. It is. You need support in those, yeah, in those times.

Speaker 3: 41:57

You can see the arrow which magnifies the pain. Yeah, so it makes it challenging. I found early on in my career that two types of people I didn't like working with so much those with unworked comp and people who had auto accidents. And I'm just saying that like working with them was so well, because if a guy went out there a week and wore your hurt himself, same kind of injury right, nick injury fell off his motorbike, whatever, surfing head plant, whatever they were motivated to get out back and do it, but the auto injured the work comp. They didn't want to go back to work and so this they didn't seem to get better till the case settled. And then it was so long gated that they now implanted the pattern they have changed their brain literally was that the Buddhist brain. The neural pathways towards disease, disablement, were in place. I'm going whoa, you got to break that. It's not worth the whatever you're trying to get out of this settlement to change your life over right.

Speaker 2: 42:57

And change your. Is that a learned helplessness state in your opinion? Is that what that is?

Speaker 3: 43:03

Secondary gains oftentimes right. So their secondary gain was maybe not working economic settlement, maybe they didn't have to work around the house or whatever you know, they didn't have to perform for their spouse. So lots of secondary gain things out there. And which brings up kind of John Sarno. He's another one I really admired, john Sarno medical doctor we have a specialist out of I think might have been Columbia University. He goes well, like all these problems that he was seeing was back problems. We have specialists, all these back problems.

Speaker 3: 43:39

And then when MRIs were invented he noticed on MRIs of the GI tract people's spines were missed, they had herniated disc, they had arthritis and they had no complaints. He's going wait a minute. Why do some people have complaints and none? And the ones with no complaints are often worse and we're diagnosing and treating based on an X-ray or an MRI in this case, and we're saying, well, you got to take out the disc, you got to do this, you got to do that, and yet this other one has the same issues, no complaint. What's different on this? So he did a deep dive into that and came up with it. That is TMS, tension, muscle syndrome, tension around the area. Now they would say what's tight, trying to prevent them being injured. He goes no, it's because they're in rage that isn't being expressed, it's in their brain, telling their body that they're totally in, you know, unresolved rage, and it's tightening up all this area. Once the play goes down in there, they'll have all this pain, but they're getting cut on, they're getting medicated.

Speaker 2: 44:46

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:47

Yeah, and then he expanded that over the years Each book came out with well, maybe that could be related to oh, neck tension shoulders. Then it was like, oh, asthma might be related to that. Oh yeah, it could be. Oh, so yeah you got to love it.

Speaker 2: 45:03

Yeah, because it is about the fascia too. So the fascia stores the emotions, it stores the energy right, and if it doesn't get expressed or released, then it's going to create that tension in the body.

Speaker 3: 45:16

Yeah, and you have all these weird pain symptoms. You have people on medication for life, bringing their lives and whoo, it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2: 45:26

It doesn't make any sense. We just have to start waking up on an individual level to realize that this isn't working and we got to stop doing this.

Speaker 3: 45:33

Get adjusted. Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 45:36

It seems to me to be the easiest path, like I feel like I'm all you know. I get weekly adjustments and it's mainly because I was a gymnast and I was unwinding all that stuff and I have had many, many tailbone injuries and I realized that that was something I needed to also look at and work on. And the tailbone injury I feel like initially resulted in a knee injury which was resulted in reconstructive knee surgery. So I've been just kind of unwinding all that and it's been amazing. I just feel I feel better now than I did in my 20s, you know.

Speaker 3: 46:12

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 46:13

And so you know, I want to talk a little bit about that too, because this is something I've been thinking about with the tailbone. For many people, I know this is a common injury to land on your tailbone, right?

Speaker 3: 46:24

Right, right Very common.

Speaker 2: 46:27

Yeah. So what does that do to a person? It's almost like a head injury when we injure our tailbone right.

Speaker 3: 46:34

So one of my favorite people who I got to study with for a few years before it passed away was Major Dejanette. Then he discovered his technique was sacral occipital technique Sacrum occipital they're connected to the spine. If there's any interference along the way where the coccyx sits on the tailbone, that sits on the sacrum and there's ligaments, there's coccyxial ligaments in there and there's a whole branch of chiropractic that's based on releasing those ligaments related to the coccyx. You just got to love this stuff. So the problem is it's a little awkward to be treating that. So a lot of people kind of steered away from it. But some of them didn't and they got really good at releasing this. But a lot of injuries. I had one myself when I went over to a friend's office. He had his couch in his main part of his office. I went to sit down and I just went boom right to the board on the bottom of the couch.

Speaker 3: 47:28

He didn't tell me about it and there was just a soft couch with no support and I injure my tailbone for like three years. After that considered a movie theater. You know it's pretty painful. And then I started working on it, releasing it, doing diathermy on it, bringing energy back to the area, doing this sacroloxipital type of technique to it to get that function. But it is, it's common. I saw a lot of those entries when different sports got in effect, it was for skateboarding, then it was rollerblading. That was a big one. And then what was the next one? Rollerblading, landing on your tailbone. Oh, I know snowboarding.

Speaker 2: 48:09

I was going to say snowboarding.

Speaker 3: 48:11

Yeah, I've done that.

Speaker 2: 48:12

I've injured my tailbone on that.

Speaker 3: 48:14

Yeah, In the beginning it's just boom on your butt, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. And when you're learning you're on the hard stuff, You're not on the soft powder, you're on the Right yeah so a lot of them, and it's the lack of being able to steer Like.

Speaker 2: 48:27

I couldn't steer it, so I had to fall because I was like I don't want to run into a tree.

Speaker 3: 48:31

So you know, Right right.

Speaker 2: 48:34

But also gymnastics too. I had some pretty bad tailbone injuries, like one time I landed on the on my tailbone, on the edge of the beam where the metal part comes out. You know, that was really and I. That was so bad that I totally forgot about it. And later my dad said don't you remember that injury? I'm like oh yeah, I totally forgot about that.

Speaker 3: 48:54

Yeah, no, I just associated with it. It was so painful. I was headed out of body experience, Exactly exactly.

Speaker 2: 49:04

So, but it really relates to everything though, because, again, it's the other end of the spine right. So we tend to focus up here a lot. But also, you know, and I feel like there's a spiritual component to it as well, because I remember hearing something I don't know if you've heard this before, but I know that they talked about in some in people who were really like ascended masters or people who were really studying to be fully. You know, spiritually ascended would work on their like they might have. If their tailbone was out of alignment, they would have to readjust it or they would have to break it to put it back into place. You know, have you ever heard anything like that in a spiritual community?

Speaker 3: 49:47

I haven't quite heard that. I mean it's the whole thing with Kundalini and I think all of us are sort of studied that at some point trying to get the release of the. Kundalini.

Speaker 2: 49:58

Did you say Elvis?

Speaker 3: 50:00

No, no, we all delved into it.

Speaker 2: 50:03

Oh delved.

Speaker 3: 50:04

Yeah, I don't know about Elvis. He may have, I don't know. I don't think so, though, but we all sort of dove into it, right, we wanted Kundalini. You look at the caduces in medicine. They got the snakes crossing going up the caduces. That's all related to that energy coming from the tailbone area up through the spine and coming to the top. But it's that inner plane of the energy.

Speaker 2: 50:28

I haven't heard of breaking it to change it, but I have To put it back into place because maybe, yeah, to realign it, yeah, exactly. But I was like that seems extreme, like I would not want to do that yeah.

Speaker 3: 50:41

No, but a lot of people have misshapen tailbones. The tailbone's been burnt, falls particularly and it gets tucked up under and it can cause problems with constipation. A lot of neurological input. There's a lot of nerves in that area that can affect sexuality. A lot of different things.

Speaker 2: 50:58

And you can adjust it. It can be hyperactivity as well, right, Because the nervous system's heightened Like any kind of spinal misalignment.

Speaker 3: 51:06

I feel like it could create that too, yeah. Right, yeah, there's a great one. Who is that Kind of think? Not Russell Grand, but oh, who is that guy? He'll come to me. He has a presentation out there on ADD in Young Boys and in the presentation he shows who's the psychologist in Canada who's being canceled. Who is that guy?

Speaker 2: 51:35

Oh, Jordan Peterson.

Speaker 3: 51:37

That's it. Good one, I knew you'd catch that. Yeah, george, you see there's this grand deal of a I don't know a young 10-year-old kid, something 18-year-old, and he's on a jungle gym doing hand, pulls across and he's going down and he gets off and he's jumping on these different tops of these logs, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. He does it again over and over and he's going. Jordan Peterson's going. Add is a construct because boys aren't getting enough exercise and you gotta give them enough exercise till they're exhausted or you're gonna get like ADD. It's just that fake guide to houses.

Speaker 2: 52:17

I agree with that.

Speaker 3: 52:19

And I'm going wow, is that not true, right?

Speaker 3: 52:21

Yeah, so you talk about all these kids on these drugs now you know, my girlfriend's a professor and the kids coming into college now, like so many of them, on medications, and they start off on these medications when they're young and they're like speed medications, but when they're young it acts in a contrarian way, so it seems to calm them down, and then they get to a certain age and then they start acting more like speed and now they're all training these drugs to stay awake in college.

Speaker 2: 52:49

Oh my gosh, that's terrible. Yeah, it's weird because I'm so glad they didn't have the drugs when I was younger because, exactly, I was like I'm. You know, I was on allergy medicine and that was bad enough, but you know it. Just Kids are meant to move and like the way that we're putting them in school it's just not conducive, it's not natural, to what they're supposed to have a lot of energy, they're supposed to be able to do a lot of physical activity but yet we're making them into like miniature adults or something and having them, you know, sit for longer Adult discussions.

Speaker 3: 53:28

Yeah, I remember when I first oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 53:30

I just was listening over hearing a gentleman. He was walking his son I don't know his son was probably like five just home from school, and then the conversation that they were having. I was just like you're talking to your kid like an adult, like what you need Exactly, like what's happening right now, like he doesn't understand what you're saying, like no, no, it's so true. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 53:58

So true, yeah, so.

Speaker 2: 54:03

But what?

Speaker 3: 54:03

were you gonna say before tumor birth? I got into what you were saying with this adult, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 54:08

Well, yeah, just we don't and I thought about this too like no wonder so many adults feel like there's so much suppression and their emotions and their expression. Because we, you know, as we, as more people become adults, like in these, these generations that we're having, you know, be so restricted and with school and then with what they're doing and keeping them safe in the name of keeping them safe or whatever it is, you know, it's like there's not any room to play, and so when you become an adult and you're not, you weren't allowed to play as a child what do you think is gonna happen? You know you're gonna blow up because you know you have no way, no outlet. You know no way to. I mean, you know what you talked about in the beginning.

Speaker 2: 54:56

Cliff was like people, the people who actually did the laughing in the morning, found all the success, but so many people would not be open to that because they have never really opened themselves to play. And that's play right there, you know, and as an adult it's different, you know, than when you're a kid, but you have to be able to do it. When you're a kid, you have to be able to play, you have to have some freedom there to explore yourself on the physical level too. It's just like to me, it's just. But also there are kids that are doing physical stuff but they're in more organized sports and stuff like that. So they're over-scheduled, overworked, you know, and it's just sad, it's like what are we doing right now, you know?

Speaker 3: 55:44

I remember what I was gonna say, but like, I remember the first time a client came in to me, a patient, and they said that they no longer were gonna have PE because they didn't want to take showers. And I went wait, you're not having PE because you don't want to take a shower after PE. Yeah, I can only do it if I'm in the last class of the day. That's six period or something like that. And I went what? So nobody's going to PE except six period because they can't take showers. And so, since they can't take showers, they want to be smelling class. So they just cancel PE. So like there's no physical education, there's no getting out there and running around.

Speaker 3: 56:28

I was like blown away.

Speaker 2: 56:31

Well then, that what happens, Cliff, is when you become an adult. You don't value physical exercise, right? And so guess what happens, I know, and your brain's being seduced with these devices.

Speaker 3: 56:45

Yeah, and these devices are just causing us to our ability to have awareness in their early, focusing it to the exclusion of other things. I have a queen's who stepped off a curb in front of a car and got killed because she was so focused on her device.

Speaker 2: 57:02

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 3: 57:04

And that's not rare. I remember when I first was in Australia I think it was around 2005, went out with the students and they go out and they were like on their phones texting immediately since classes, as we walked over to a restaurant and, looking around me, I'm the only one without a device because texting hadn't caught on in the US. It was like an added expense, but their talking was expensive and texting was cheap. So everybody's on their device texting. I'm like, I'm all like this. You know they're just down and going oh, this isn't a good look, this is problematic from the get go. So I started taking pictures. I had this huge collection of pictures of people all done to death.

Speaker 2: 57:45

That's a great idea.

Speaker 3: 57:46

Yeah, technically, tex-nik, tex-nik. And so you got this 10 pound, 12 pound bullying ball that's going forward, compressing it into the spine. Yeah, and it's at a young age. It's like five year olds, it's six year olds. You can't go anywhere, you can't go to a restaurant, you can't go to the beach, you can't go anywhere where people are life path and it's dramatically changing.

Speaker 3: 58:11

You're seeing people putting changes in their necks at 16 or three changes in the neck at 16, wear and tear, so talking about what that does at prefrontal again and the whole brain and the circulation and the spinal fluid and it's just a disaster just rolling down the highway without any apparent way of changing it.

Speaker 2: 58:35

Yeah, because the signal will stop if your head's too forward. And it won't. The brain will almost be cut off from the body, which is so interesting, right? And?

Speaker 3: 58:44

these muscles at the base of the skull become tighter and tighter and more restricted, to the point where you can't drop your head down and can't let you out?

Speaker 2: 58:53

Yeah, kyphosis used to be just something that happened to older people. Right now it's like young people are experiencing it.

Speaker 3: 59:00

Dramatically? Not even slightly. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:04

Yeah, so it's crazy. I saw one day I've seen this actually more than once somebody on their phone on their bike, looking down at their phone on their bike.

Speaker 2: 59:13

I'm like that is insane. What are we doing right now, like we're just. It's just such a disconnect. So I did this thing where and I think I'm gonna do this more often I feel like everybody could do this and see what they get from this. But a week detox off of social media, at least you know, just a week. Just give yourself a week and just try it and just see how you feel after that. And I was like this was lovely, like I felt, like I was and I don't really I don't feel like I'm on my phone all the time, but still the amount of social media that I was consuming was having effect on my reality and I felt the shift of reality when I stopped for that week. And from now and so, now I'm gonna recalibrate how I'm gonna use it, because I just, you know, I can't take that disconnection like that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

That's not. I don't feel like it really, it doesn't serve me at all to be feeling like I'm always focusing on this, consuming other people's information, because it again it's like these aren't people, like some people I know personally, but some people I don't, and so does that really matter to my life. And so getting back to people that you know, who your friends with, who were in your life, who were in your community, I think is really important for us to step back into like okay, you know, because this mental health thing is a big thing right now and I feel like this is part of it is because we're in our heads, like you said in the very beginning, and we're on our phones and we're disconnecting our brain from our body and it's like we need to get back.

Speaker 2: 1:01:02

Exactly very narrow. So I feel like the only way we can do that is to just almost like a detox is gonna be. The word detox is gonna be completely different from now. Right, we need to. We need to detox, because I remember when I first met you I don't even think that, I mean social media was just starting to come in.

Speaker 2: 1:01:23

But it wasn't like it is now and we weren't using it like we do now, and so I mean, I was starting to feel like, oh, wow, this is what it felt like before all this came in, like, and this is, this is not something I really need. I didn't even really miss it and I was like, wow, this is having an effect on me.

Speaker 3: 1:01:44

You know my well, there's something to be said, for ignorance is bliss right.

Speaker 3: 1:01:48

Yeah, there is I mean, there's an old saying, there's a story about Tick Nautan. You know he wrote like 100 books and Buddhist meditation, teacher peace, you know, trying to get peace in the world. And there's an old story about him walking into somebody's house and he walks in and in the corner of the house they have a nice big TV. There's a box TV back then and on the top there is the picture of Buddha and it gets kind of upset with a guy's house. He's going why do you have the Buddha on this box? That brings all this awfulness into your house.

Speaker 3: 1:02:31

Oh wow, I'm thinking who we are, this little device that brings in all the troubles of the world. Right, if we stop and take off the device and we look around our office, it doesn't appear to be happening, right, it doesn't appear to be all this chaos and horribleness and fear. Let me just somebody's trying to send me a little bit of a step, don't accept. Okay, we'll just keep talking. Can you hear me, okay?

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Is it fear? And acronym for what is an acronym for?

Speaker 3: 1:03:06

False, false evidence that appears real Right. So who you are, you're being driven by this thing. You know you got the Buddha by sitting on this box that's bringing in the worlds, and they don't show you good news on those. No, they don't show you anything that's happy. I noticed that my dreams change a lot if I connect to social media during the evening. So I'm a big fan of dreaming and looking at your dreams and trying to get a little bearing on them, and they change enough for the better.

Speaker 2: 1:03:39

Yeah, no, I noticed that too. I was actually thinking about that this morning. Yeah, about how my dreams if I even also if I watch a show before I go to bed, you know, or yeah, or if I get on social media yeah, it does affect that. Yeah, yeah, pretty radical. What have you noticed with your dreams? So how it affects it? Do you feel like?

Speaker 3: 1:04:01

There's more uncertainty, there's more fear in them, there's more things that aren't clearly happening in a positive way. So I like dreaming. I have tons of dream dreams I got, I don't know a lot of them.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

Yeah, I look back on them. And if there's repetitive dreams and they're going to do a dream process, that I learned from Robert Johnson, but now they're not, they're not, there's not repetitive again, going back to social media, and then, if I'm away from it, I'm traveling, I'm in Canada at Holly Hawk, one of those places. They're completely different, right. So there's a certain thing about there's a certain degree of your dreams are molded by your experiences of that day. Right, if that day is watching a Netflix movie, it's not so happy. And then looking at social media, oh, wow, whoa he hot. And then, oh, night night, all your subconscious is working away in there, wow, processing that thing, clearing that bridge out of there.

Speaker 2: 1:05:08

Absolutely. And the thing is like, do we need to? You know, I'm not saying I always tell people like I don't think it's great to be delusional about reality, but I also think that you can't really do anything about that outside fear, porn or whatever is being put out to you. What you can do is work on yourself and your own shadows, your own stuff around that you know like. So if you know your something comes up from all of that and you're feeling like it needs to move through, then that's what you work on. You know, like we talked about in the beginning with the fascia, it holds all these memories. It holds all these you know traumas and experiences and even like stuff you watch. I think I feel like that you hold that kind of stuff in there too. Right, so it's. The detox is really about detoxing information. You know, not outsourcing your own insight and perception and way of seeing things out to other people.

Speaker 3: 1:06:14

That includes your intuition. Yeah, like, how about as a parent? So you're a parent and you always tell your kids I want you to hang out with the good kids. I don't want you to hang it out with the bums and that you know whatever, so it's the same with your thoughts, right, hang out with. You know good people, good thoughts, good. You know people who can be supportive and, you know, enhance your life, don't hang out with the fear-faced people.

Speaker 3: 1:06:41

I mean, there's so many people, you know, the conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, conspiracies seem to be real these days, but they do.

Speaker 2: 1:06:48

Yeah, but you can get really wound up in it. I mean, I've got friends here so wound up into them that they're.

Speaker 3: 1:06:55

You know they're altering their lives and you know what they're doing.

Speaker 2: 1:06:59

Well, it's because we're creating our reality. We are doing it.

Speaker 3: 1:07:02

Right, that's it. That's it so many times.

Speaker 2: 1:07:05

Everybody there's. That's been said many times, but I don't. Yeah, that's the thing like if you have the blinders on, it gets pretty trippy, honestly. But I think that that's where you have to start with yourself, because you have to, you know, start discovering what is there, you know?

Speaker 3: 1:07:23

I mean, that's what I like about, like open focus brain and Trisnimi's work, the great folk, open focus brain, and then they're described well, how we have awareness, how we pay attention and we have, like these four degrees of paying attention, one's very narrow objective. Well, that's can be very fear based, it's very stressful, and then we shift from one thing to another, which is concept shifting, which is very stressful on the brain, on the body on the tension, your neck boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 3: 1:07:52

And then the other end of that is to be immersely diffused in the moment. That's like, oh, it's like being on the stream of your life, oh, trying to fly fish or something. Ah, you know, it's like, wow, it's all here. We're all immersed in the moment, we're totally spirit that. We're not like, oh, my back is killing me. Oh, jesus Well, you're.

Speaker 2: 1:08:19

It's limiting because you're limiting yourself to that small space you know instead of realizing we actually are infinite within our energy and we there's no, there's no, like there's no ending to it, I suppose. So if you think about that, that feels really expansive. You know, you're just like, wow, okay, I don't really need to do anything right now and I can just be here right now, in the moment, and then this will lead me to the next moment. You know and that's really in my opinion, how time actually works, but we've been led to believe that it's linear. You know that we have to do kind of do sequential this to this, to this. It's like no, like that's just an illusion in a way. That's kind of what keeps us in this, this perpetual suffering. You know, kind, of mode.

Speaker 3: 1:09:07

Yeah, I mean, you think about it. When you're passionate about something, when you're involved, when you're in love, yeah, Time changes, yes, it does. The passage of time. When you're bored, when you're like in fear, you're on linear time, literally. Yeah, oh man, another minute goes by. Wait. I need my pain meds, oh, no, my psychotropic meds. Oh, is it time for my prose?

Speaker 2: 1:09:32

Exactly, exactly, yeah. Yeah, we're afraid to let go. We're afraid to let go and do, and I can be. I can attest to that my life. You know, everybody's been there. We all are afraid to let go, but again, it's like it takes just you practicing. Like I said with the stuff I teach, it's about prioritizing the time with yourself, really like being with yourself and finding out what is there.

Speaker 2: 1:10:01

You know what is there in finding the right support along the way as well, of course, with the right people. But we have to all start with our own insight, our own guidance, you know, and how we want to do things and stop outsourcing it to the media, including social media.

Speaker 3: 1:10:19

You know, I think it was Bradshaw that said we've been great young, we're starting our life and we get our experience and we're giving a sack and in this sack we put all of our issues, our challenges, our troubles. By a time where young teenagers the sack's getting a little bigger but we're still carrying it because we're not letting go. By a time where a young adult, late teenager the sack's getting bigger. By a time where an actual young adult the sack's so big we can barely get in an elevator and we're still carrying it. We carry it to the end and the things we're eating is down and man letting go is such a skill. I put a list together.

Speaker 2: 1:10:55

Well and that's why your back hurts.

Speaker 3: 1:10:57

Yeah, about eight exercises of letting go. And I tell my clients, just pick one of them, One of these exercises about letting go, just pick one or two or three and just practice letting go and get that sack to start unloading, free yourself up, you know. Laugh.

Speaker 2: 1:11:14

Exactly. Yeah because it's like when we take life too seriously, it's just it becomes really heavy. Right, it becomes really heavy Quickly. Yeah, this has been an amazing conversation, Cliff.

Speaker 3: 1:11:30

Yeah, so glad we hooked up. I'm glad you liked Heidi Dr Heidi's presentation with Russell Bram. That was great.

Speaker 2: 1:11:37

Yeah, and I'm going to get her book for sure. Yeah, it's highly recommended.

Speaker 3: 1:11:41

It's a fairly easy read. Get the electronic, like I said, because there's embedded links to her videos that she's put together. That are nice, simple videos. Reacquair me and hopefully your audience can all dive in and get her book, support her work. She's in New Zealand and works out of chiropractic college there Great stuff and it's inspiring stuff. Yeah, you want to get inspired. Read this stuff. Look at her little videos ago. Well, I can do that. I can get that. I can do that.

Speaker 2: 1:12:15

Yeah, because it's empowering to know we can heal ourselves, right yeah exactly. I mean, it's all here. Nature wouldn't have done it any other way, right? I mean this is, it's a full package, right? We just don't know how to navigate. It's like I've said this before it's like stepping into this high tech like spaceship or space vehicle and just being like not even know, not even being able to understand what the controls are, because it's intuitive, right? So that's how our body works too. It's like we're in this, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:12:47

So first time went to Byron Bay, Australia. I got to go out to the Steiner school. Here they call it Waldorf's, but the Rudolph Steiner school in. Bale.

Speaker 2: 1:12:55

Bay so.

Speaker 3: 1:12:56

I sit there and the people I was staying with, they're kids in the school. So I'm hanging out and watching the school and doing the stuff. And then I see the older students and I realize that the primary teacher goes all the way through with them, right? So they go from kindergarten to 12th grade the same teacher I'm going. Well, this teacher knows a lot about these people. What if we started a book on the kids and it was going to be their owner's manual? Now wouldn't that be cool. We started a little owner's manual. Wow, how I responded. I felt down, I got hurt.

Speaker 2: 1:13:28

That would be such a good idea, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:13:31

I just tried this thing. I had these dreams. I had this, an owner's manual. I thought, wow, we should do this, we should, everybody should get their owner's manual going. So when they hit 30, 40 and going through the divorce or whatever they go oh wait, a minute. I had resiliency back when I fell off that bicycle. I needed stitches but I was hanging in there or whatever, right.

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

Right yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:13:54

That's genius. I love that idea You'll have to take it out and get it out now.

Speaker 2: 1:14:00

Yeah, definitely your next project, right.

Speaker 3: 1:14:03

No, no, I'll give it to you. I'm passing the torch. Oh boy it's quite a project.

Speaker 2: 1:14:12

We didn't even talk about your musical career. Your photography You're amazing. You're my inspiration for not just having one identity but many different ones, and trying them on and showing people that they can do that too. So yeah, thanks.

Speaker 3: 1:14:34

Well, we'll do it another time. I appreciate the flute.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

You are so welcome. It's my pleasure. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Speaker 3: 1:14:42

Oh yeah, well, good chatting and we'll meet up again down the road.

Speaker 2: 1:14:48

Yeah, Do you want to leave anybody without? What are you offering these days? What do you want?

Speaker 3: 1:14:54

to offer the audience. I'm just mainly doing online consulting People who want to dive a little deeper into their lives, find tools, techniques that they might help straighten them out. They might need some help with lab tests interpretations, so I do more like coaching work. I would call it now Okay. Yeah, you know, coaching them through their rough spots. They're. Hopefully they want to just be a better human being. Maybe they don't want to change at all and they just have some issues that they need to talk about. So that's what I do. So I do that two days a week, monday and Wednesday. I can contact my office 8-5-8-272-2333, or they can sit in email. My staff's in Monday. Wednesday she's on vacation this week for the doTERRA conference in Utah. Oh, okay.

Speaker 2: 1:15:46

Yeah, they can come to see Yellowstone.

Speaker 3: 1:15:49

We're excited about that. But otherwise, yeah, they can call, they can leave an email, they can post office email, just drccoliburthattnet Wonderful. Yeah, I'm happy to chat with people and help them on their journey. All right, we'll talk about all this stuff we're talking about.

Speaker 2: 1:16:10

Exactly, yeah, empowered and true and proud wellness is when your body, you know how to use the tools that your body provides, in my opinion, and read it too. So thank you so much, cliff, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. And I hope to get out there and visit you sometime soon again.

Speaker 3: 1:16:25

All right Hope to see you All right, see you.

Speaker 2: 1:16:29

Thank you and we'll see you in the next video.

Speaker 1: 1:16:47

Thanks for watching. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.